I had an idea this morning: A "one room" game competition for Quest.

Competitors create a game that is one room.
The point of the game is to leave that room.
The room does not have to be (but surely might be) a "room" - it can be anything. A forest clearing, perhaps, or the deck of a boat.
The barrier to leaving does not have to be (but surely might be) physical. (Can be plot/character driven, etc.)

Games could be graded on
Literacy (grammar, spelling, punctuation)
Style (purely subjective: writing style, humor, ingenuity)
Story (there actually being one, it making sense, etc.)
Puzzle (too hard, too easy, originality, etc.)

Everyone gets judged by everyone else. Cannot grade yourself. Highest average grade wins. Not sure of prize - any suggestions?

Competition name: OneRoom: The Art of Leaving. Or is that too pretentious?

I like the idea of that..

I'd go with the boat idea thing, I've got a nice image of my head on that.
Could also apply to a multitude of situations.. So I'm all for it!

I might have a start on a few things soon!

Okay, so that makes three competitors so far? (Assuming means Thanatos is in.)

If I get a gift certificate on Amazon.com or something, how do I go about transfering it to whomever wins? Does anybody have any suggestions on "Internet-friendly" prizes?

I don't have the time and I don't have the will power anymore.

I guess it depends..
Would like to though.

Well that was quite a 180, paul_one.

Is anyone else out there interested?

*awaits Elex and Redsun*

That's a very interesting idea - reminds me of the old demo coders trying to put on a show and stay under a certain kilobyte limit.

OLD demo?

They still have the 1k/4k/10k/64k limits, as well as the other demo's.

Love the demoscene! Just wish I could code something and go to one of them.
Would be great to go there for a day or two, watch them all in the big screens, and of course the drinks after : ) .

Would be kinda' cool to have a kilobyte limit. Say around 50 or so. Or is that too big?

Reasons I think a one-room competition would be cool:

1) Small commitment for creators (fast development time)
2) Exposes different ways of doing/coding things
3) Free critiquing that writers can apply to their larger stories
4) Encourages innovation
5) Highlights Quest
6) Oh - it's fun

I'll have a go at this, bit busy atm and no idea on what to do it on though. So I'm more of a 'maybe'. Are people allowed to work on an idea together then share the prize or anything liek that?

Sure - why not? I'm a little uncertain as to how to go about getting a prize to the winner. I think I'll base it off the number of entries: each entry adds $5 to the prize, up to a maximum of $50. (I'm no richie-rich.)

Curse you exchange rate!! The pound is shit atm which means a dollar i worth 72p, as opposed to 50ish normally. Curse you banks for sepulating and bringing about another depression... Anyways, back on topic. Most generous of you, Overcat.

Also, as to a size limit: what if you include a library in your story? Does that count towards the size?

I like the competition name. I think it would be great to include best NPC interaction. When will this competition start?

There is no date to start yet. It's not clear as to whether the competition will go ahead at all. What I'd like to do is establish a set of submission guidelines first, and then set a date. Depending on how many stories are submitted by that date, the competition will go ahead. I see a minimum of three entries as validation for the commencement of the competition.

As for "best NPC interaction", I'm not sure that's practical in light of the limitation of the stories to be submitted: one-room games won't necessarily include any NPC's at all. I think more generic measures of merit are required, as already mentioned - grammar, spelling, difficulty, technique, style, etc. The idea is that if you know a complete solution to a one-room story, you could finish it in roughly sixty seconds (probably faster). This is not to say that you couldn't have an NPC, just that there is a good chance some games won't include them. If you do have really neat NPC interaction, you may get a high score for technique or originality or story, but not for 'NPC Interaction'.

One requirement I would like is that, if you submit your game as a compiled file (because you don't want people to snoop), you release an open ASL version of it after the competition. This is so that people can learn how you did what you did (whether you created your story through the QDK or not).

As to a kilobyte size limit, certainly one of the draws of this competition is that it doesn't have you commit to months of work. You can whip up your idea in an afternoon, and then spend a week or two taking care of all the little stuff. This promotes attention to detail, which you can then incorporate into any larger stories that you write later. So hopefully no one is thinking of submitting a monstrosity. I don't know that a size limit is necessary to enforce at this point (although you may argue to the contrary and change my mind).

So here is what I think is absolutely necessary to grade:

Literacy (as mentioned previously)
Story (a subjective catch-all)
Difficulty (too hard, too easy, just right)

Those can of course be split into sub-categories if needed Are there any other areas I'm missing? Everyone feel free to chime in about submission guidelines and grading measures. I'm open to anything and everything.

Compiled games aren't available to everyone.
I know I wouldn't bother to compile it in any case - if people need to snoop then your game obviously isn't designed very well.
Also, snooping can be quite nice to go "oh, how can I get THAT to come out!?" and hence, people actively finding the game more enjoyable.

... That's my opinion on compiling anyhow.

As to a size limit, I think that that will lead to compromise.
It means you can either have functionality, or story, but not both. You will have to sacrifice one for the other, and that does not make for a good GAME at all.
Perhaps a separate size competition could be run where you compare games based on their small sizes.
... They would all have to either be compiled or uncompiled as compilation moves loads of things about altering the size.

As for grading, I think what you've mentioned should be fine.
Grades out of what - 30? - for each game..

Right now I might have to code my own IDS and sell it back to the company I'm working for (the closest to an ideal IDS system I can find online is Samhain.. I'm currently talking to people in work about it)...
Either way, I might need to dedicate time to work more, so I have no guarantees on being able to enter.

Elex and I are working together, btw.

If compiled games are that important, I can restart my free compiler project. (Though I still think that in the case of Quest, "compiled" is a misnomer and "obfuscated" is more accurate.)

Tentative grading system:

Literacy (10): grammar, spelling, punctuation. Easy to mark. -1 for each infraction.
Story (10): style, originality, cool elements/ideas, subjective catch-all. can be just your impression of the game/story as a whole, or a specific critique.
Playability (10): includes marks for difficulty (too easy, too hard, just right), ease of interaction, and techniques used.

1-15/30: Needs a lot of work. Would not recommend to a friend.
16-20/30: Was interesting, but needs touch-ups.
21-25/30: Good story, only a few things I would ask the creator to change/fix before I recommended it to a friend.
26-29/30: Really good, would recommend a friend to play it as-is. Only subjective marks lossed.
30/30: Holy flaming goats. I repeat, holy flaming goats.

Paying the Prize:

I checked out Pay Pal today, and it seems that you can send money to friends and family through it. Which means it might be a way for me to pay the winner, whatever country they are in. Also, I could wire the money, too, though I haven't looked into that yet. Does anybody have experience with this?

Elex and I are working together, btw.

That's great - how will you split the winnings?

If compiled games are that important, I can restart my free compiler project.

So what would your compiler do to the ASL, exactly?

Just to say, I have paypal and am willing to donate £20 to the cause.

.. Of course I'll have to try getting back in there again as I haven't used it in a couple of years.

It would read a .ASL file and create a .CAS file.

I have no idea how we would split the winnings. What's half of $20? hmmm...

When I figure it out, I'll get back to you.

Kidding, I have PayPal. It takes roughly 5-7 working days to transfer cash.

Just to say, I have paypal and am willing to donate £20 to the cause.

That's awesome, paul_one.

With your contribution, we now have the following for the prize winner:

UK: min 28.45 max 48.17
US: min 40.68 max 68.87
AUS: min 58.71 max 99.40
CAN: min 50.50 max 85.50

It's looking like PayPal is the way to go for this, so I assume all entrants will need an account there if they want to collect their winnings. If for some reason you cannot get a PayPal account, but want to enter the competition, chime in. We'll figure something out.

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Submission guidelines:

1) Story must consist of one "room" only. "Room" means a location, so any location is valid, not just an enclosed living space.
2) No directional commands are allowed - save as a winning move. As soon as one moves to another location, the game is won. (* Alternate rule below - please weigh in.)
3) All stories must be plain ASL.
4) There is no size limit; ASL file may be of any length; story may be of any duration.
5) You may submit your story as many times as you want until the deadline: midnight of May 3rd, 2009. That's a Sunday, so you've got a "crunch" weekend nearing the due date.
6) Stories are submitted to my email account: private message me for the email address. (I will post all the stories on a Google Sites website. They're easy to create, free, and look nice.)
7) If you have more than one file (because you're including libraries, or just breaking up the parts of your game into smaller pieces) then zip them up into one file. Google Sites doesn't allow the posting of files with a .lib extension - I guess for security reasons.

* 2B) No directional commands are allowed - save as a winning or losing move. As soon as one moves to another location, the game is either won or lost. (In any event, the story concludes.) Anyone have feedback on this?

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Judging guidelines:

1) You cannot judge your own story.
2) If you judge one story, judge them all.
3) Try to judge all stories with the same level of scrutiny. Know thyself. If you mark many submissions in a row, your judgements may begin to jade. Or not - your cognitive fortitude may be stronger than mine. Just attempt to be fair. (There is a purely subjective mark (story) in which you have a lot of leeway, but the other two marks (literacy & playability) should be as objective as possible.)
4) We will judge all the stories openly in the Quest forums. Each story writer/group should create a thread in the Quest Games section for their story called "OneRoom Submission: Story Title". Perhaps a little intro post by the author(s) would be nice, too. Only create this thread after you have submitted at least one version of your story.
5) Judge a story once, and post your scores in the thread for that story.
6) Please do not respond to judgements, whether of your own submission or others, in the submission threads. (I can't enforce this - just asking.) Rather, start another thread. Perhaps the moderators could come up with some suitable rules.
5) You do not need to have entered the competition in order to judge.
6) Judging will commence on May 4th, and last 2 weeks.
7) Total individual scores for games are out of 30. The average of all your scores is your final grade.
8) Any scores received by a judge who did not score all the stories will be disregarded.

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Scoring guidelines:

Offer a mark out of 10 for the following three categories:

1) Literacy

All stories start off with the full 10 marks. Any spelling, punctuation, or grammar errors you see deduct 1 mark. OneRoom entries are small, so be nice to your sentences.

2) Story

This is entirely subjective. You may mark this however you see fit. One person may find the story compelling, another cliche. You may mark the story not just by its content, but by the manner in which it was told, the techniques used to convey the progression, etc. For example, where some may like a surreal, doesn't-make-sense menagerie, others may not. It's up to the judge.

3) Playability

Was it a chore to play this story? Too hard, too easy, just right, etc. Did the story solution rely on sufficient clues, messages, and/or common sense - or was it impossibly obscure? A simple example of where one should lose a mark for playability: the player can 'get paper towel' but not 'get towel' or 'pick up paper towel'. An example of obscurity: you must speak the words "bazzle-be-boo" in order for the magical door to open, but no clue, message, common sense, or other indicator exists as to why this must be the case.

The best way to monitor your playability is to get others unfamiliar with your story to play it. Since your story is short, it shouldn't be much of a bother for them anyhow.

--------

Alright, all the above is open to discussion and is mutable. I'll have the Google Sites website up shortly, so you can all weigh in on it.

Sounds good, both me and Tron are moderators, so it shouldn't be too hard to enforce this.

I pay paypal through my ebay account, so no problems with that here. In regards to spliting hte winning, just half the total ammount won, then convert each half into GBP and aus$ then send seperately. Unless that's a problem?

So what kind if things count as a 'room' then? Just to give us an idea...

I would suggest only one rule change, that is that the game mustn't last too long, 5 hours in one room is a long time, unless they do it very well or would this be judged under playability, to keep it going for so long and still be awesome?

Unless that's a problem?

Sounds good.

So what kind of things count as a 'room' then? Just to give us an idea...

Any location. Your story should have reasons why you cannot move out of that location. The simplest reason is that there are physical walls preventing your movement. But you could be anywhere, provided the story gives you an understanding of why you cannot leave your current location just by typing a directional command. For instance, you could be in the middle of an open field, but psychological limitations prevent you from moving, and you have to "think" it out. Anything goes.

I would suggest only one rule change, that is that the game mustn't last too long, 5 hours in one room is a long time, unless they do it very well or would this be judged under playability, to keep it going for so long and still be awesome?

Any length is fine, I think. If you can manage to entertain someone for five hours in a single location, kudos to you. I don't think I could. A general rule of thumb could be this: if you know a complete solution to the story (every command you need to type in order to leave the room) then it should take you under sixty seconds to win. (Depending on your clerical skills.) It should take you longer, however, to figure out the solution itself. Just how long depends on the player's wits, and how well the author created their story (as judged by playability). If a player is low on wits they may very will judge the game too hard. If they are particularly cerebral they may judge the game too easy. Again, the idea is that every judge critiques each game with the same brain, so it should all even out in the end. (Don't get drunk and play one story, and the play another while sober two days later, please.)

Oh - and an add-on to my last post: feel free to post your story ASL wherever you want. I'd like to have them all in one location (via Google Sites, here), but you of course can put your game wherever you want.

Perhaps the winner's game could be Stickied onto the main site? Could you do this Alex? (assuming your reading)

Also, with the 'room' you say it's a location. Could you have, say, a house, but able to got to different rooms (bedroom, cupboard, etc)?

Also, with the 'room' you say it's a location. Could you have, say, a house, but able to got to different rooms (bedroom, cupboard, etc)?

Room as in one ASL/QDK room. There can only be one room definition in your ASL file. (Besides the location you exit to in order to win.) A house is made up of many rooms (or many locations). Any directional command (north, south, east, west, northwest, northeast, southwest, southeast, up, down, go to enter, exit) that works in your story must lead to a win (and maybe a loss, depending on how people feel about that: see submission guideline rules 2 and 2B above.)

Hmmm... I'd be happier with round numbers .. Like "£30-50" and "$40-70" .. But that's a niggle I ALWAYS have...
Perhaps we could put in the mystical "99" somewhere.
"39.99" .. or "39.95" .. since they love to go even cheaper in some things.

Sorry, I'm ranting.. My brain is quite creative at the mo (look out to see some of this 'crazy' packaged up in my game!).

Maybe we should use African dollars or Rupee's to get the initial money, half that, and then convert them (if they are split).. Since it depends WHERE you're splitting the money as to the quantity each person gets.

I like the rules as listed - although they could be "listed" slightly differently.
Elex pointed out games can be too long.. The only amendment to the rules that I'd see there would be the "...may be of any duration - although this could be detrimental to the final grade."

I don't like the literacy marking (-1 for EACH mistake).. After all, 10 small typo's or grammar mistakes could cause a total wipeout to an otherwise perfectly understandable and above average literacy quality. (IE, it's good apart from 10 small mistakes).
... I like the fact it starts at 10 though and then get's reduced on how badly you think it's done though.

I don't get why a discussion about the game can't go on in the game announcement thread.
Why don't we have the individual threads for the individual games (and any critique's) while the scores are announced in a main thread called "Comp 09: Results" (where the winner is announced as the last post)?
Either that or judges scores could be PM'd to Alex (if he's up for it as an impartial adjudicator - that spelled correctly?) to count up and announce the scores.

Depends how open we want to be about marking things - I have no issues with being totally open and doing it all in a main thread - others may not want to announce what they think of a game, to the world.

Again, these are just (some of) the thoughts running through my head..

*dum-dee-dum-dee-dum*

Paul_One wrote;

I don't like the literacy marking (-1 for EACH mistake).. After all, 10 small typo's or grammar mistakes could cause a total wipeout to an otherwise perfectly understandable and above average literacy quality. (IE, it's good apart from 10 small mistakes).

Couldn't agree more! Someone who tries to elaborate on the default responses and uses more than minimal descriptive text to create atmoshpere is automatically going to be at a disadvantage if the rule is '-1 per mistake.'

The more one writes, the more likely it is that a typo or grammatical error will creep in. That is a fact of life!

Personally, in a competition like this, I'd forgive the odd few spelling errors or typos completely in an otherwise good game. If the thing is so riddled with spelling and grammar howlers that it detracts from the experience, by all means dock a few points, but don't apply a 'totting up' system and thus penalise those who try to be a bit more creative in their writing.

I once had something I wrote roundly criticised for having a section that "exhibited terrible grammar, atrocious spelling and lack of coherent sentences." Now the part that drew the negative comments was actually a conversation between two 17th century privateers (semi-legalised pirates) who as uneducated men would hardly be likely to speak perfect King's English. In fact I deliberately gave one of the privateers the habit of continually referring to himself in the third person as a stylistic device.

"Cap'n Jack finks we slit 'is gizzard an' let them sharks 'ave 'im."

O.K. so it isn't perfect english, but fits with the old sea-dog rather better than

I think we should cut his throat and throw him to the sharks.

The thing is, had I written that one original line under the -1 point per error rule, applied literally it would have wiped out my whole 10 starting points in one go.



Just my 2p worth...

Al (MaDbRiT)

Hmmm... I'd be happier with round numbers .. Like "£30-50" and "$40-70" .. But that's a niggle I ALWAYS have...

Yeah - I just used the current exchange rates and the aforementioned non-round numbers came out.

"...may be of any duration - although this could be detrimental to the final grade."

Okay, sounds good. What about this:

A general rule of thumb: if you know a complete solution to the story (every command you need to type in order to leave the room) then it should take you under sixty seconds to win.

I don't like the literacy marking (-1 for EACH mistake)..

...and...

Couldn't agree more! Someone who tries to elaborate on the default responses and uses more than minimal descriptive text to create atmoshpere is automatically going to be at a disadvantage if the rule is '-1 per mistake.'

Yeah, that could happen - didn't think of it that way. I guess it depends on how much you like proper grammar and all that. A little mistake here and there could really bug you, or it could not. Main thing is, no matter how you decide to generate scores for games, you'll (hopefully) use the same method every time. If someone doles out low marks because they are a stickler for grammar, well, it doesn't matter so much if they are consistently sticklish - the average of all the scores is the determining factor. And if they only judge a few of the games (thereby bringing the scores for those game down), then their marks are disregarded anyway. (Must judge none or all.)

I don't get why a discussion about the game can't go on in the game announcement thread.
Why don't we have the individual threads for the individual games (and any critique's) while the scores are announced in a main thread called "Comp 09: Results" (where the winner is announced as the last post)?
Either that or judges scores could be PM'd to Alex (if he's up for it as an impartial adjudicator - that spelled correctly?) to count up and announce the scores.

Depends how open we want to be about marking things - I have no issues with being totally open and doing it all in a main thread - others may not want to announce what they think of a game, to the world.

Well, probably best to let you moderators work that one out. I figured it would be good to keep all the individual scores for any particular story in its own thread. Never thought that some folks might like to judge anonymously. Personally, I'd prefer if it were all open. But whatever the majority wants is fine with me.

On another note, I finally thought of an idea for the competition - I was getting worried I wouldn't be able to think of anything! Hopefully it won't be too cliche. We'll see, I guess.

Did anyone get a chance to check the Google Sites website I threw up? Let me know if this is okay with you (you as in all of you), or if you'd like to post the games some other way. (It took two seconds to make, including the logo (thanks paint.net!), so it's no skin off my nose if we decide not to use it.)

I had a look - looks great. Throw on the competition dates and such, as well as the winning (and runner up) games. Perhaps a forum someplace down the track.

I feel judging on the game should be open, so that the writer's learn from this, where they went wrong, what they did good, so that in the future, they'll make a better game.

I agree with Tron and Madrit on the grammar/spelling.

I agree with Tron on the thread organisation. Though people should try to keep none-judging posts small, or PM who-ever if it's more appropriate. And I thought that Overcat was organising it, so should post the results, unless Alex wants to.... If we smile sweetly enough maybe he'll make a 'Quest games competitions' forum?

I agree with Tron on the thread organisation. Though people should try to keep none-judging posts small, or PM who-ever if it's more appropriate. And I thought that Overcat was organising it, so should post the results, unless Alex wants to.... If we smile sweetly enough maybe he'll make a 'Quest games competitions' forum?

Well, the idea was that all the games could be posted (with short descriptions) in one place, via a Google Sites website. The winner could then be announced there, and all the final grades could be shown. Any discussion about and grading of games - I assumed - could happen right in the forums. But we can do this in whatever way seems best to everyone. I don't think there is a way to put a forum on Google Sites, and I am not so sure I would want to do that anyway. You can enable commenting. If the grading and the discussion occur at axeuk.com, however, then we'll all recognize each other by our forum monikers. (I've kind of become used to everyone's names here. )

I'll work on a newer version of all the guidelines and put it at the the Google Sites website. If there are any more changes to it that anyone would like to see, just mention them and we'll see what everyone's feedback is like. If 'yea', change occurs; if 'nay', no change. I'll also put up the deadline, as Thanatos mentioned. Which gets me wondering: how is the due date for y'all? To soon, too late? I figured a month would be good, but lemme' know if it doesn't work for you. (Preferably not the night before.)

Sounds good. Once all submissions are in, make a zip file for all together for easy download.

Only thing is next week is the start of the holidays here (easter and all that), and I'll be off canal boating for a week and ot sure for the two weeks after that, either at my mum's or my bf's mum's house, not sure how mucg time I'll get on a computer to program and such. That's my only concern with the deadline. One week after we're back the exam period begins, so I need to revise over the holidays really.

Can we make intro rooms? Eg, a Menu, linking off to (eg) Settings, How to Play, FAQ, and to the main one roomed game?

Allowing a room to store objects not in use in the main room would be useful, instead of making thing inaccessable and such...

Currently, the submission guidelines here say:

1) Story must consist of one "room" only. "Room" means a location, so any location is valid, not just an enclosed living space. Programmatically, this means one room definition in your ASL file. A second “winning” room is permissible, provided the game ends in that room, and no further commands by the player are permitted after they enter it. You may define other rooms for scripting purposes, as long as those rooms are unreachable by the player.

Didn't think of using rooms for introductory stuff! So yeah, don't see why not. Will change rule forthwith, to...

1) Story must consist of one "room" only. "Room" means a location, so any location is valid, not just an enclosed living space. Programmatically, this means one room definition in your ASL file. A second “winning” room is permissible, provided the game ends in that room, and no further commands by the player are permitted after they enter it. You may define other rooms for scripting purposes, as long as those rooms are unreachable by the player. Caveat: you may code introductory and/or "how-to-play" rooms that are accessible by the player before the game begins.

Cool. Hopefully non-quest users will try these games out too, and gives us a bit of publicity...

Also Overcat, me nad Thana are most likely going to be making different games. So don't worry about splitting.

Why does an introduction need a separate room?
Introductions are done in "startscript".

Also, you don't need to store objects in a different room - you can store them in the "define game <>" block.

Also, my comment on marking the games, or sending scores off, in private did not extend to comments/critique of the games - which would go on in the topics.

IE:
Marks should be separate from comments/critique.
Comment/critique should be done in each game topic, while marks should be held in one central topic (making tallying the marks, and reading about the game, much easier).

Why does an introduction need a separate room?
Introductions are done in "startscript".

As mine is done, but if you want an introductory room where the player can type in pre-game commands before they start, then I think that's a viable design choice.

Also, you don't need to store objects in a different room - you can store them in the "define game <>" block.

I've found it useful in the past to store categories of objects in specific inaccessible rooms so that I could use the 'for each object' loop on them. You never know - I think that it's viable design as well.

Marks should be separate from comments/critique.

That's a good idea.

By the way, I just found this: http://www.sparkynet.com/spag/backissue ... ml#oneroom

The official site: http://www.avventuretestuali.com/orgc

Looks like someone had the same idea! Sheesh, I feel almost embarrassed. It also appears that Dr. Froth entered in 2007: http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/One_Roo ... ition_2007

That competition doesn't specify the need to leave in order to win, however, so we do have something unique.

And not all of us can code. Idon't even know what a DefineGame Block is

Silly Thana... You play with your QDK... Aww, we love you really.

I agree with tron on central thread for judging and seperate for comments and discussion.

I've put in a 'help' room which'll explain how to play properly and such, in case non-questers play it.... What we want in the end really, more questers?

Also, make a walk through requirement? BE a shame if people never got to see the brilliant ending because the last puzzle was just that little bit too hard for them?

Now overcat, in regards to one playable 'define room' one could stretch this if they had a grid system working, as we've seen a few examples of this. Would that we allowed, or is that following the word, not the letter? If this isn't allowed, is a smaller system for just battles allowed, for dosging, flanking, etc... I'm asking hypothetically, no planning this for my game...

Also, nothing wrong with us having competitions ourselves... In fact this'll be awesome. Like the christmas one... heh.

Gosh, you guys keep thinking up more uses for extra rooms!

What I thought was a good way of putting it was that you should not be able to use any of the directional commands. But perhaps more accurately, there should only be one room that has a player-viewable description. Even more accurate: there should only be one room description ever described to the player. When they win (by leaving that room) you can message them whatever you want, but the game must end (no further commands). So having a grid system would work as long as there was only one room description for the entire grid, and the player did not have to 'go north' (or any other direction) in order to interact with anything in the room. The grid shouldn't force the player to move about. It can be used for other effects, however, like for combat and what-not. I say 'no directional commands' because you could call a massive location your 'one room', when in effect it really should be more than one location. (So you code up a grid system to access all the objects in it, attempting to keep the description the same - but really, you just have more than one room, and you're trying to bend the rules.) So as long as you can win the game without moving anywhere (save for your exit of the room), then having extra rooms for scripting purposes is okay.

So do we want to change the Submission Guidelines for critiquing and scoring? How is one central thread to post all your scores for all the games, and then an individual thread for each game where you can put your criticism (and the score if you wish)? I assume for the 'score thread' that each judge would make one post with all the games scored and sorted. That would make for easy reading. Lemme' know so I can update the Guidelines document.

Hi again,

Just a couple of points really.

I think there (still) is an annual '1 room' I.F. competition that runs just after? the main annual IF competition, perhaps rather than a seperate Quest only comp, Quest authors might want to enter this with their efforts instead of / as well.

As regards being a 'one room' competition, I don't believe there should be any nominal limit placed on exactly how many 'quest rooms' the author uses to construct his game. By that I mean that as long as the whole game appears to play out in one (and only one) location and the object of the game is to leave that location, the number of rooms used to create the illusion is unimportant.

It seems to me that using a grid system to effectively create multiple locations within one 'quest room' would really be against the spirit if not the letter of the competition rules.

Al (MaDbRit) - now up to 0.04p on this topic...

I think there (still) is an annual '1 room' I.F. competition that runs just after? the main annual IF competition, perhaps rather than a seperate Quest only comp, Quest authors might want to enter this with their efforts instead of / as well.

Yes, their rules state that you cannot enter a story that has previously been released elsewhere. So if you want to enter that one with your game, you won't be able to enter this one. (As for this competition, I think as long as you created your game in 2009, no matter if it has been entered elsewhere, then you can officially compete.) Dang it, I should have guessed someone else would have thought of a competition like this.

As regards being a 'one room' competition, I don't believe there should be any nominal limit placed on exactly how many 'quest rooms' the author uses to construct his game. By that I mean that as long as the whole game appears to play out in one (and only one) location and the object of the game is to leave that location, the number of rooms used to create the illusion is unimportant.

It seems to me that using a grid system to effectively create multiple locations within one 'quest room' would really be against the spirit if not the letter of the competition rules.

Thank you - that's exactly what I was attempting to get across (perhaps poorly!). I'm going to steal your phrasing for the guidelines, if you don't mind.

Submission Rule 1 changed to:

1) Story must consist of one "room" only. "Room" means a location, so any location is valid, not just an enclosed living space. There is no nominal limit placed on exactly how many Quest room definitions you use to construct your game. As long as the whole game appears to play out in one (and only one) location, and the object of the game is to leave that location, the number of rooms used to create the illusion is unimportant.

My game will most likely take place in a physical room, but the room will change a lot. Dynamic descriptions will be used, as the player moves about the room (example is they're on the other side of the room and type to pick something up, it will print they walk to the object first). What the player sees when they 'look' will be affected by where thet are and facing. Is this ok Overcat?

If time comes short though I might not use this feature... But it'd be nice to try out.

For sure it's okay! Can't wait to play your entry.

This seems like a good Idea.
I've been somewhat busy ATM.

so one defined room only?
as long as there is only 1 defined room then you
can still use the illusion of multiple rooms?

after all It is possible to have an entire game played in one room, even
though typically it would consist of many rooms.

No - the story must take place in one location. You may have more than one defined room in your ASL, provided those rooms aren't used to break the illusion that the entire story is occurring in that one location. The story cannot occur in multiple places. I don't think you should be able to issue any successful movement commands either, unless it wins the game. But - some want to be able to move about to different places in a single room. I think that's alright as long as it doesn't get excessive: ten different 'areas' in a single room would kind of break the 'single location' idea. Especially if each of those areas have different room descriptions. The location (room) description should be the same everywhere. You're in *one* location. Limiting access of objects to certain 'areas' might be okay. Hmmmm.

I would say that one "location" is defined as:
No movement
ONE physical location
The area may "change" (ie, a wall can crumble, or a window can be pulled out, etc) but you are still in that one location.
Rotating is NOT movement (eg, "look north"... Also you can LOOK through the window if you wish)
If you "move" about in a large area, then that devoids the purpose of a "one room"/"one location" definition surely? It's just like the "one house" point made above, or the cupboard one. If you "stick head in oven" then you can't treat that as a seperate room - since that is then a multiple room game - surely?

--

As to the points made above, I see the use of more then one room to hold spare objects as a weak argument (you're not making a LARGE game with many different classes of objects).
Pre game commands? Like what? You can't have commands going on outside the main room or else it's movement isn't it?
.. You've been in one location, done commands, then are in another location.
... Unless you're in the same 'location' - and then your excuse for a different location is null/void.
- Can you give me a reason for having a specific room for an intro, rather then a script/whatever to help elaborate?

As for a "help" room... Would this be some sort of "practice" room? And in what sort do you mean "non questers"?
Surely anyone playing IF would understand how IF 'works' - in the sense that you type a command and get a response.
Veterans know a few more commands/etc, but I don't really get what you're trying to put across?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the use of multiple rooms for 'behind the scenes' stuff - I just do not see what you're trying to get at.

There wasn't even a witty comment at the end.

paul- I think what he is getting at is each of us have a different design
style, some people use multiple rooms, some to hold hidden objects or whatever.
It's a design style that some people prefer.

Even I use an About and a Story room to start the game, at least in most of my projects.

What if there is one Room discription?, or none?
so the rules need to be revised to limit how many room locations
there can be.

Okay, here are the revised first two rules (see here for entire document):

1) Story must consist of one "room" only. "Room" means a location, so any location is valid, not just an enclosed living space. There is no nominal limit placed on exactly how many Quest room definitions you use to construct your game. As long as the whole game appears to play out in one (and only one) location, and the object of the game is to leave that location, the number of rooms used to create the illusion is unimportant. Using multiple rooms to make up a single, large location is prohibited, as that would force a violation of rule 2. A preliminary room used for “introductions” or “back story” is permitted, so long as no actual game play takes place there.

2) No directional commands are allowed - save as a winning or losing move. As soon as one moves to another location, the game is either won or lost.

As for...

...'behind the scenes' stuff - I just do not see what you're trying to get at.

I defer to:

paul- I think what he is getting at is each of us have a different design
style, some people use multiple rooms, some to hold hidden objects or whatever.
It's a design style that some people prefer.

Folks can write their games in whatever manner they want. Restricting writers from using a scripting method, any scripting method, is just a bad move in my books. It's a little like someone asking you to write a quick text processor in C, but they stipulate that you can't use pointers, and for no other reason than that you should be able to make the application without them. But that's just silly - as long as your final product allows you to type text, format it, and save the final draft, then why does it matter how many pointers you use? Are there arguments for restricting the use of pointers? Probably. But those are programming arguments.

When it comes to IF, there is no right or best way to construct a story. It's the end product that matters, and the rules as stipulated are not meant to shape how you program your game, only the context of the actual story. You've got one room - plot-wise. Programatically do whatever you want. We're not all programmers here, and I reckon that the majority of those who do have some programming skill are most likely non-professional.

For instance, I discovered that writing my entry was far more nuanced that I'd originally thought. There was so much the player could do that I wasn't allowing for. So I started pulling in a lot of the ASL I had worked on in the past, hoping that that would save me some time. I began patching this snippet with that, modifying parts where they conflicted with yet other parts, etc. As a result, and rather to my embarassment, the ASL for my entry is going to be convoluted (and bloated). But it doesn't matter. My story is working. Yeah, I might not be the best scripter, but who cares?

The story that is presented to the player must appear to take place in one location. Whether there is more than one room behind the scenes (or scene, in this case) is irrelevant.

Can you give me a reason for having a specific room for an intro, rather then a script/whatever to help elaborate?

Point is - no reasons are needed. If someone does it that way, c'est la vie. It's not a programming competition, it's an IF competition. Is there merit in efficiency and technique? No doubt. (My entry would come dead last, if efficiency and technique were scoring components.) But that's not the focus of the competition.

Plot & puzzle trump means & method. There's no right way to bake mud pies. (I tried to correct my niece, but she would have none of it. Big stones are not allowed in the pie, and neither is grass.)

... I'm trying to get examples.
Making a reason for using extra rooms to 'categorise' objects in such a weak excuse, and I was more trying to get an example BEHIND their excuse.

IE. Don't make an excuse unless you can back it up.

I'm not saying it should be ruled one way or the other, I'm intrigued as to the purpose of these "pre-game" commands.
True, the categorising of objects is purely a programming technique.

AANYWAY, another thought came across my mind earlier on today: doors leading to the same room.

You have a room which is in the nth dimension, and all the door's curb back into the same room.
Your mission is to escape.
.... Are to doors classed as "movement", since you CAN type "go north" "go east" !walk through east door" etc. You just end up in the same room.

What do we think of that situation?

What do we think of that situation?

Well, that technically isn't movement. The directional commands aren't 'successful'.

2) ... As soon as one moves to another location, the game is either won or lost.

Since the player didn't move to another location, it's all good.

I suppose we could think up many, many exceptions and hypothetical scenarios. I say we just cross those hypothetical bridges if and when we get to them.

I Like the Idea and I'll try to throw together
a game following the rules here, but I cannot promise
if I will get together a game in this competition in time since
I'm always so pre-occupied with other things.

Arn't we all?

I'm back from spending a week on a canal boat and been working on my plot, not finished it yet. Not sure if I'll use the feature I described above or not. My BF has been helping me, I've agreed to buy him some sweets if I win My aim is to finish making mine in the next three weeks so it's done before the exams start.

Good luck to everyone else though. May the best game win and all that.

WELCOME BACK!

Canal boats are cool!

..My plot's a little on the weak side too - needs a bit of a story in the one room which I can't quite get.

I'm in the throes of debugging. Suckage all around. Keep finding more things to deal with. Are you guys gonna' get others to play test for you? I think I might try to scrounge up some playtesters.

Well, the main system that I'm using I coded some while ago, so I will be able to do a fair bit of testing myself.

I may try to get one other "play tester" - but I have a reasonable amount of confidence that I will cover MOST of the commands that will be there, and no one should be left for TOO long feeling "well what do I do now?".

... Not to sound too up myself .

Should we give a walk through with our game too? I can't remember if we discussed this already or not?

I'll happily play test games for people if they want.

That sounds good, but we should only release it after the competition is over ^_^

Walkthroughs can be included with the game at your discretion. Personally, I'm not going to give one out until after the competition. Since the stories are to be un-obfuscated (plain ASL), one can always peruse the source script for clues.

As for playtesting, I would urge folks to employ people who won't be in the competition, nor judging it. Can't enforce that, but I think it would help to prevent bias. On the other hand, this isn't the World Figure Skating Championships, so if bias exists it's not like major media outlets are going to be hawking a "Quest Competition Scandal - Judge Forced to Apologize with Pie in the Face" story.

But I LOVE getting pies in my face Why must you deny me that? WHY!!!

Lol, I don't think he means pies like cream buns Elle .

So how are everyone's entry's shaping up for the competition?

My play-testers have complained that my entry is too hard. Mind you, none of them have played IF before, so it's been a little crazy. I hope it's not too hard. We'll see, come judgment day, I guess!

I Haven't even started mines yet, but Like I said I May not beable to make a game in time.

Will there be another contest later to?

<siiiiigh> The things I miss when I'm away. I bet you all thought I was dead.
I got busy with school and then went on a two week vacation (or holiday for my British friends ) and now I'm getting back into my everyday life again. Ah, a one room contest. I scanned through all FIVE pages and it appears the contest hasn't officially started yet so I just may hop on board. I have next week left of this semester so I possibly can put some time into this....
Glad to see the forum's remaining active.

Glad to have you (possibly) in the competition, Steve!

Oh I see why you said possibly. What I meant was... possibly put extra time into this. But I am definitely going to attempt a game. And unless I overlooked it, we don't have any starting/ending dates, right?

Actually, there is a due date: see here. There are submission and judging guidelines there too. If you're just getting started, we can possibly push the date back a bit - depends on how the other contestants feel about it. I know Elex was under pressure with other commitments, so she might like more time too.

What does everyone think - should we push it back two weeks, maybe a month? Or leave the date as is?

So would I get docked for a lacking story if I made an excellent one room arena fighter.

LOL - I don't know, do you get to escape the room when you beat your opponent(s)?

I started my game only slightly. The plot is a bit random, my boy friend came up with it and we're working on it together... Not sure if it'll be a good game in the end...

I'm still stuck with story progression... I have a few things I want to happen, but it's always the inbetweeny bits that get me,

I am also trying to make a good bottle/liquid model for my library - which is harder then it seems (I can't help but switch between having liquid as objects and ending up with loads of clones, or using properties and having it not mix properly... etc).

.. Plus I am kind of lacking someone to bounce my idea off of - so I just end up not being able to think properly.
So Mine's not started (really) either... Apart from one line or two.

Well I'm proud to say mine's almost finished!

...

I swear.

Hmm I see. Cool little site for the rules by the way...
Don't push the date back on my account.

I'd love if the date was a month after it is, as I have exams coming up. I may have to abandon my game and actually do some studying or my £3000 is wasted for this year...

Alright - June 7th it is. More than one person has intimated they could use a delay in the due date, so delay it we shall. There are a few late-comers as well, so that should encourage them to enter the competition. Updating the Google website...

That's mighty accommodating of you...

We love you Overcat.

'Accommodating' is my middle na- no wait, it's Michael.

One week left! How are everyone's entries coming along?

Not started. Been too much hassle with exams, then packing, then moving, and sorting out the new house. Staying at my sister's atm and there's been building work going on til now. Only just calmed down, remembered this last night and swore. Not going to finish my game in two days. Sorry. I may jsut release it when it's done anyways, unless you're planning to do this again Overcat?

I started one a couple weeks ago just to get started but I only worked on it two days. I haven't had a chance to get back to it.

I have to admit, it's nice to see that despite all the differences between Adrift and Quest, turn out for competitions is largely the same for both. Two dozen people falling over themselves to declare their intention to definitely 100% enter the comp, requests for deadlines to be pushed back just to give them "a bit of extra time to put the finishing touches in", then excuses at the last minute which don't quite hold water for why they didn't manage to make said deadline.

Well, I hope I'm not the only one who finished. If I am, it's a toss up as to whether I should release it anyway or save it for that other one room competition. In any event I need constructive criticism so I can improve the game I'm working on now. All of my playtesters had zero experience with IF (or text adventures in general), and thus the feedback was somewhat weak.

Is ANYONE else planning on submitting something by the 7th? Sorry to see that both Elex and StGG won't be entering. (I hope you guys complete your games anyway!)

I'm sure that any negative remarks weren't towards me since I specifically said on 4/24, "Don't push the date back on my account."

Anyway, I don't know if I am going to finish the project with or without a contest. Given the fact that I had put aside more interesting projects long ago due to my ever-growing busy schedule. And a friend of mine wants me to help him on his project.

Thanatos has supposedly come close to completion so perhaps he will enter his.

It's hard to hold a contest amongst a forum that has only 5 or 6 active members. It's not a bad idea... just challenging.

I'd like to see yours sometime, overcat. It seems to me there was another one-room game that was submitted that was a good game. I never played it... maybe I will sometime.

Well, it's the day after the deadline, and I've received exactly 1 entry. Mine.

It's hard to hold a contest amongst a forum that has only 5 or 6 active members. It's not a bad idea... just challenging.

Touché. Maybe the deadline was just too short for the amount of members. Perhaps a 1-year deadline would have been better. In any case, I get to give myself 50 bucks!

I plan on refining my game a little, then. Hopefully I can drum up some playtesters.

Eh, I have two big things in my way: Work and Myself.... I simply blame myself for most things .

Too much work (less than 4 working months - read 16x5 days - bank holidays and lost days). to bring in a new OS, application, installation method, hardware, fight for a proper way to manage things, secure the OS, implement several key security features, new upgrade infrastructure, deal with support, integrate current (obsolete) monitoring methods, deal with idiotic firewall teams, deal with idiotic network teams, deal with idiotic architects, deal with idiotic application developers (no you do NOT need to be **ing root!), deal with stupid VMware admins (yes it's on the correct network... sure it is... yes.... oh wait, no.. Now the IP address is completely different"), deal with the windows team who still use WINS instead of blooming DNS for most of their stuff, deal with documentation guys who know f-all to actually do with system admin documentation ("but we need the servernames and IP's in the documentation" "no you morons, you keep the configs seperate and then 'fill them in' when it tells you to").

Geez, I am even having to deal with us re-inventing the wheel several times.

.. So yeah, sorry, I have really not had enough time to finish off my work, let alone think about my story which has a great big progression gap in it (jumping from "oh you just woke up" to "oh my god, your life's in danger!" without some story progression is a bit bad IMO).

I think I started coding, but was still in the story design phase.

So yeah, sorry, I have really not had enough time to finish off my work...

S'all good. Am going to enter IF Comp 2009 instead. Would you have time to playtest my fledgling (and horribly implemented) entry?

I'll have a try.. I'm getting more into playing games, reading books etc now.
Trying to expand on the "me time" and get back into the old me... It's quite hard, all my enthusiasm's gone.
But yeah, send it over to my gmail address:
[email protected]

I'll playtest too if you want: [email protected]

hey why not! stevethemagicguy at gmail dot com

Okay, that's three of you now I've sent the beta to. I should have lot's to work on soon!

So did this 1 Room competition expire on June 7th?

Indeed, it hath expired.