It seems that beginner author/programmers of text adventures have a tendency to struggle with grammar, structure, and flow of story, but I've been running into an opposite problem, and I know its due to my lack of experience. As an amateur (but proficient) author, I have a tendency to write long-winded, descriptive paragraphs about locations. Now I'm realizing there is an art to converting story to game, and there just comes a point when you have to back off of the descriptions. I am more inexperienced as a programmer than a story-teller, so I thought I would bring it up for discussion. Has anyone else struggled with this problem?

I'm kind of curious about others' opinions on this and some solutions. Some of the most enjoyable text games from the 80s seem to have the simple/difficult ratios mastered, and that's why they're so fun! Your thoughts?

tad games generally have MASSES of story/description behind it.

The last IF comp winner had way too much, and not a good player interface IMO (can't remember the game off hand).
But it depends what you want to achieve I think.

Are you referring to "Lost Pig"?

No - and actually the game I meant wasn't in TADS.. The name was 'Floatpoint'?

But my point stands for poetry, creative writing, movies, etc.
There needs to be a good balance between the flow of the story, and the description.

I think I remember reading that you don't want to cluster too much description into one place, since you start describing something (A jolly old fat man with fluffy white hair) and the more details you give over, the more likely it is to make the reader re-think and change the image in their head (with a green coat, and yellow socks, pens sticking out of his pockets and an umbrella hanging off his arm...) and the more that happens the more the reader wants to give up!

Sometimes it's better to let the reader think up the smaller details (the curtains, the EXACT pattern on the vase, the colour of the carpet, etc)..

I think I concur. Especially for text games. The point is not just to read a story, but to solve puzzles. Takes the energy right out of a gamer's heart.

Do not forget the people who are more interested in an interactive story than a puzzle fest. I have noticed that there are two camps of IF players...and they both want very differant games.

You could create a game about a strange box, that required several puzzle solving segments to open and the people that love to solve puzzles would probably really enjoy it.

But...unless you put that box into the land of Fogswollow, and had a damn good compelling reason to open it...then the story lovers are going to hate it.

I say, make the game you want to make. If you have a story...tell it. If you have a cool puzzle...make it. It seems when people desgin things trying to please or impress other people than they usually fail on all counts. Make that game for you and the people that are on the same page with you will love it.

Unless, of course, it sucks.

those are great points. i'm not sure we would disagree with that, either. if the author's heart is to make puzzles, stories, etc. they should remain true to what they're doing, and in turn, the reader/player will see the authenticity in it. Gotta agree that you can't try to please everyone in this format, too, because you do have readers and players, two very different groups.

but just like editing is needed for author's, and QA for game programmers, in the same way, there is a new sort of tempering that's necessary for text adventures, I think. I want certain rooms to feel heavier. Certain puzzles to be harder. But if everything is so descriptive, or if every single puzzle is so "exact" in how you solve it, I'm afraid the reader/player will go "hell with this."

I.E. For example, if I've set up an ominous hallway as the setting, but its made up of 4-5 rooms just to walk down the thing, and each paragraph is immensely long and descriptive (as opposed to a couple) than I think maybe the "story" part starts to lack rhythm,

just like IF I WERE TO SUDDENLY TYPE IN ALL CAPS, THE READER'S INTEREST WILL MORE EASILY SKIP TO THE NEXT PARAGRAPH, NOT WANTING TO DICIPHER WHAT I'M SAYING, BECAUSE THEY'RE LACKS A GOOD ABILITY TO FIND THE RHYTHM, AND A SENSE OF ACCENTING CERTAIN POINTS, BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS SO INTENSE, DESCRIPTIVE, AND COMPLICATED. OF COURSE, THERE ARE SOME THAT WILL GRAVITATE TO THIS HEAVINESS, BUT THEY ARE AN EXCEPTION TO THE RULE, I BELIEVE.

the same goes with mastering music. There is a point when the music is loud, sure, but it is so flat, it becomes uninteresting.

Lot's of food for thought here!

Did any of y'all see "Meet Joe Black" (Brad Pitt, Anthony Hopkins)? I thought it was a great show. However, many others complained about the length. You're right, you can't please everybody. If the author makes some decisions up front, and then could convey some of this to his/her intended audience, I think it will make for a more satisfying experience. Things like general play time, general level of difficulty, intended audience, etc., could be put in the game description. "This story will pull you into the innermost workings of the human soul" would probably convey to me a game of considerable length, depth, and dialog. "Numerous levels with challenging puzzles all the way", would make me expect to engage some extra brain cells. Even those statements will mean different things to different people. But, if I read the description and decided to play it anyway, at least I couldn't complain about it not meeting my expectations. That is, if the description was accurate.

Like reading a good book, I like to read text that gets me involved in the game. What I do not want, though, is to have to dig a critical piece of a puzzle out from a lot of fluff. If there is something in the text that is going to be required to solve a puzzle, I think a good game writer will find a way to convey it, and still keep the game challenging.

I agree with Froth. To hell with them, make the game you want to make. If they don't like it, meh. There are bound to be people out there who love long, descriptive, compelling, interesting story-lines and room descriptions (such as I). You can't please everyone, and if you do, you'll just fail.