1. How seriously do you enforce image copyright? Is it like Youtube, imgur, Facebook, and much of the rest of the internet whereby you can use make derivative works using copyrighted images as long as you aren't making any money and aren't popular enough to incur the wrath of big corporations, or is the game archive actively purged of anything with copyrighted media files?

2. Is there a way of moving objects up and down the object tree in the editor? I have been doing this by switching to code view and cut/pasting, but maybe there is a better way

3. Is there some equivalent of raw/verbatim strings so I don't have to type all my text messages in one long line? Given that this is a text adventure engine this is an extremely common requirement. Or maybe some way to create a block of text within xml tags and then use that block of text via a named variable?

4. In the "verbs" tab you are unable to edit the name of your verbs, you have to go into code view to do this

1. How seriously do you enforce image copyright? Is it like Youtube, imgur, Facebook, and much of the rest of the internet whereby you can use make derivative works using copyrighted images as long as you aren't making any money and aren't popular enough to incur the wrath of big corporations, or is the game archive actively purged of anything with copyrighted media files?

I don't know about this. Alex would have to answer as he's in control of all of that, but as a general rule you should never use any material that's not in the public domain or that you've made yourself without permission from the original creator. If you do, you're opening yourself up to the possibility of trouble.

2. Is there a way of moving objects up and down the object tree in the editor? I have been doing this by switching to code view and cut/pasting, but maybe there is a better way

Left click and hold on the item in the tree and then drag it to where you want it moved.

3. Is there some equivalent of raw/verbatim strings so I don't have to type all my text messages in one long line? Given that this is a text adventure engine this is an extremely common requirement. Or maybe some way to create a block of text within xml tags and then use that block of text via a named variable?

You can do it in the code editor.

4. In the "verbs" tab you are unable to edit the name of your verbs, you have to go into code view to do this

I haven't noticed this. Maybe you're using an older version of Quest?

sgreig wrote:

1. How seriously do you enforce image copyright? Is it like Youtube, imgur, Facebook, and much of the rest of the internet whereby you can use make derivative works using copyrighted images as long as you aren't making any money and aren't popular enough to incur the wrath of big corporations, or is the game archive actively purged of anything with copyrighted media files?

I don't know about this. Alex would have to answer as he's in control of all of that, but as a general rule you should never use any material that's not in the public domain or that you've made yourself without permission from the original creator. If you do, you're opening yourself up to the possibility of trouble.

Actually no, you don't open yourself up to any trouble at all, the chances of a company suing you for using a copyrighted image in a text adventure/youtube video/imgur meme are absolutely zero. But some people with far more respect for the law than myself have moral issues with using copyrighted material, and for that reason Alex may not allow such games to be stored online.

sgreig wrote:

2. Is there a way of moving objects up and down the object tree in the editor? I have been doing this by switching to code view and cut/pasting, but maybe there is a better way

Left click and hold on the item in the tree and then drag it to where you want it moved.

Doesn't work. You can move objects to have a different parent, but you can't rearrange the order whilst keeping the same parent using drag and drop.

sgreig wrote:

3. Is there some equivalent of raw/verbatim strings so I don't have to type all my text messages in one long line? Given that this is a text adventure engine this is an extremely common requirement. Or maybe some way to create a block of text within xml tags and then use that block of text via a named variable?

You can do it in the code editor.

Do what?

sgreig wrote:

4. In the "verbs" tab you are unable to edit the name of your verbs, you have to go into code view to do this

I haven't noticed this. Maybe you're using an older version of Quest?

I should have specified I meant in the verbs tab of an object, not on the game obejct's verb tab.

Ah, for (3), the answer was "turn on word wrap in the code editor".

Actually no, you don't open yourself up to any trouble at all, the chances of a company suing you for using a copyrighted image in a text adventure/youtube video/imgur meme are absolutely zero. But some people with far more respect for the law than myself have moral issues with using copyrighted material, and for that reason Alex may not allow such games to be stored online.

This is false. I work as a graphic designer and know people personally who have been sued for using materials they didn't have permission for. Never assume that the original copyright owners don't care. Some of them actively check for this and will pursue you very aggressively.

Doesn't work. You can move objects to have a different parent, but you can't rearrange the order whilst keeping the same parent using drag and drop.

Everything in the game is ultimately a child of the game parent object. If you can't select multiple items to move, you can move the parent object to where you want it to go, and then drag it's former child objects back to it again.

I should have specified I meant in the verbs tab of an object, not on the game obejct's verb tab.

Fair enough. I haven't used verbs much in the game I'm working on, so it's probably something I never noticed. If it is a bug, it's something Alex will have to look at.

sgreig wrote:

Actually no, you don't open yourself up to any trouble at all, the chances of a company suing you for using a copyrighted image in a text adventure/youtube video/imgur meme are absolutely zero. But some people with far more respect for the law than myself have moral issues with using copyrighted material, and for that reason Alex may not allow such games to be stored online.

This is false. I work as a graphic designer and know people personally who have been sued for using materials they didn't have permission for. Never assume that the original copyright owners don't care. Some of them actively check for this and will pursue you very aggressively.

Were any of the things they were sued for hobbiest, non-commercial projects? If you are talking about commercial work then that's clearly not what I'm talking about. And I don't mean to imply copyright holders totally don't care, only that they don't care enough to chase down hobbiest projects that only a few people ever see.

sgreig wrote:

Doesn't work. You can move objects to have a different parent, but you can't rearrange the order whilst keeping the same parent using drag and drop.

Everything in the game is ultimately a child of the game parent object. If you can't select multiple items to move, you can move the parent object to where you want it to go, and then drag it's former child objects back to it again.

But how do you change the order of objects which share a given parent?

1. I don't actively check for copyrighted content as that would be impossible, I have no way of knowing who the copyright holder is and if you have permission. I do ask on the game upload page that you don't upload copyrighted content, and I hope people abide by that. I haven't had any problems yet where I've been asked to take anything down. I generally take a reactive approach on these kinds of things, so I'm not going to start actively vetting anything unless something happens that means I have to. I hope that people who upload games respect this, it's much easier for everybody if rules are followed, and it saves me a lot of time and aggravation.

2. You need to find the list of objects. When you've got a parent room selected, go to the Objects tab on the far right and you'll see a list of its children. You can move up and down from there. For rooms themselves, there is a list when you select "Objects" right at the top of the tree, but it includes all objects in the game (not just top level rooms) and I think it probably doesn't work very well for moving up and down (I thought there was a bug on the issue tracker about this but can't find it right now).

3. What strings are you referring to here? Within a script command the "print" message can span multiple lines for example.

4. Not sure why you would want to rename a verb on the Verbs tab? Adding a verb to an object here adds a verb definition to the game too, so we would need to work out exactly what should happen when a verb was renamed on an object tab. Would it add a new verb definition to the game for example? Also it's fairly easy I think to just add a new verb and copy the message or script across.

Alex wrote:1. I don't actively check for copyrighted content as that would be impossible, I have no way of knowing who the copyright holder is and if you have permission. I do ask on the game upload page that you don't upload copyrighted content, and I hope people abide by that. I haven't had any problems yet where I've been asked to take anything down. I generally take a reactive approach on these kinds of things, so I'm not going to start actively vetting anything unless something happens that means I have to. I hope that people who upload games respect this, it's much easier for everybody if rules are followed, and it saves me a lot of time and aggravation.

So if e.g. a school pupil wanted to make a Dragon Ball Z fan fiction game with images from the manga, or if someone wanted to do a comedy Cillit Bang game about cleaning the fridge, with pictures and sound clips from the Cillit Bang adverts, or they wanted to do a political satire with photographs of famous politicians taken from the news, these sorts of things would be severely frowned upon? On other sites for community creative content mash ups of pre-existing content grabbed off the internet are widespread and widely-accepted part of internet culture.

Alex wrote:2. You need to find the list of objects. When you've got a parent room selected, go to the Objects tab on the far right and you'll see a list of its children. You can move up and down from there. For rooms themselves, there is a list when you select "Objects" right at the top of the tree, but it includes all objects in the game (not just top level rooms) and I think it probably doesn't work very well for moving up and down (I thought there was a bug on the issue tracker about this but can't find it right now).

Ah thanks, at least some of the time this should be easier that switching to code view.

Alex wrote:3. What strings are you referring to here? Within a script command the "print" message can span multiple lines for example.

If you have a script command that says:

msg("Tuesday's todo list:

1. Get shopping
2. Cook dinner
3. Watch TV")

the expression parser will break. In C#, Python etc there is a way to make raw, multi line strings possible. A couple of related questions:

1. Is there a way to include a newline in a message without using a msg command called with a blank string?

2. The editor doesn't seem to remember your preference for word wrap being on

Alex wrote:4. Not sure why you would want to rename a verb on the Verbs tab? Adding a verb to an object here adds a verb definition to the game too, so we would need to work out exactly what should happen when a verb was renamed on an object tab. Would it add a new verb definition to the game for example? Also it's fairly easy I think to just add a new verb and copy the message or script across.

I renamed the verb on the game definition tab, and then needed to rename it on the object tab as well to match. It is true I could have copy pasted its content to a new verb.

junichiro wrote:So if e.g. a school pupil wanted to make a Dragon Ball Z fan fiction game with images from the manga, or if someone wanted to do a comedy Cillit Bang game about cleaning the fridge, with pictures and sound clips from the Cillit Bang adverts, or they wanted to do a political satire with photographs of famous politicians taken from the news, these sorts of things would be severely frowned upon? On other sites for community creative content mash ups of pre-existing content grabbed off the internet are widespread and widely-accepted part of internet culture.

It's not come up yet. I don't think I'd delete that kind of thing unless I was asked to. But if you uploaded a "game" that had 10 MP3's in it, and the game was just a set of hyperlinks to play those tracks, then I wouldn't be happy at all. But nobody has done any of these things yet.

If you have a script command that says:

msg("Tuesday's todo list:

1. Get shopping
2. Cook dinner
3. Watch TV")

the expression parser will break. In C#, Python etc there is a way to make raw, multi line strings possible. A couple of related questions:

1. Is there a way to include a newline in a message without using a msg command called with a blank string?

The Script Editor handles this. Add a "Print a message" command and you can hit Enter as many times as you like. They are converted into "<br/>" tags for the underlying expression.

2. The editor doesn't seem to remember your preference for word wrap being on

Happy for this to be implemented if somebody wants to do it.

Alex wrote:

"junichiro"

So if e.g. a school pupil wanted to make a Dragon Ball Z fan fiction game with images from the manga, or if someone wanted to do a comedy Cillit Bang game about cleaning the fridge, with pictures and sound clips from the Cillit Bang adverts, or they wanted to do a political satire with photographs of famous politicians taken from the news, these sorts of things would be severely frowned upon? On other sites for community creative content mash ups of pre-existing content grabbed off the internet are widespread and widely-accepted part of internet culture.

It's not come up yet. I don't think I'd delete that kind of thing unless I was asked to. But if you uploaded a "game" that had 10 MP3's in it, and the game was just a set of hyperlinks to play those tracks, then I wouldn't be happy at all. But nobody has done any of these things yet.

Certainly the dividing line between "probably OK" and "clearly not OK" is unavoidably vague, there is a continuum of copyright violation depending on how much the content has been altered and changed into something clearly new. Unauthorised remixes and video clip montages on youtube are generally accepted whilst complete films and TV shows are very actively taken down.

Alex wrote:The Script Editor handles this. Add a "Print a message" command and you can hit Enter as many times as you like. They are converted into "<br/>" tags for the underlying expression.

Ah, I thought I already tried <br/>, but apparently not.

Alex wrote:

2. The editor doesn't seem to remember your preference for word wrap being on

Happy for this to be implemented if somebody wants to do it.

Maybe I will do it, I'll see how annoyed I get by having to turn it on each time I restart.

Were any of the things they were sued for hobbiest, non-commercial projects? If you are talking about commercial work then that's clearly not what I'm talking about. And I don't mean to imply copyright holders totally don't care, only that they don't care enough to chase down hobbiest projects that only a few people ever see.

Yes, there are hundreds of examples of "fan game" projects that have received cease and desist orders from the companies who own the trademarks and copyrights on those characters and settings. And this includes game franchises that haven't seen releases in 15+ years. Mario, Metroid, Mega Man, King's Quest, Leisure Suit Larry, Thexder... there's been tons that get shut down. Some, like King's Quest were able to work out a licensing deal in the end and release the games regardless, but most just disappear.

Some examples:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200911 ... 7103.shtml
http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/seg ... ge-remake/
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=258516119978

sgreig wrote:

Were any of the things they were sued for hobbiest, non-commercial projects? If you are talking about commercial work then that's clearly not what I'm talking about. And I don't mean to imply copyright holders totally don't care, only that they don't care enough to chase down hobbiest projects that only a few people ever see.

Yes, there are hundreds of examples of "fan game" projects that have received cease and desist orders from the companies who own the trademarks and copyrights on those characters and settings. And this includes game franchises that haven't seen releases in 15+ years. Mario, Metroid, Mega Man, King's Quest, Leisure Suit Larry, Thexder... there's been tons that get shut down. Some, like King's Quest were able to work out a licensing deal in the end and release the games regardless, but most just disappear.

sued != cease and desist, you are mixing together examples of a relatively scary thing happending (being sued) and examples of a feasibly possible thing happening (a cease and desist letter). So the answer to my binary question was "no", not "yes". And even for cease and desist letters, they are sent when a serious team set out to make something which copies a pre-existing work wholesale, like taking the entirity of the art assets from a pre-existing computer game, not when people have made a flash game or youtube video using pictures of digimon or short movie clips.

Actually, a C&D means they WILL sue you if you don't comply with their orders. Go ask Tom Fulp over at newgrounds how many fan games he's had to take down over the years. The point is, if the company finds out about it, they will order it to be taken down, so it's not worth the hassle in the first place. Just come up with your own stuff.

sgreig wrote:Actually, a C&D means they WILL sue you if you don't comply with their orders.

"Actually" I already knew that, the strange thing is that you assume I didn't. Being sued is not the same as not being sued.

sgreig wrote:Go ask Tom Fulp over at newgrounds how many fan games he's had to take down over the years. The point is, if the company finds out about it, they will order it to be taken down, so it's not worth the hassle in the first place. Just come up with your own stuff.

Go ask Tom Fulp if newsgrounds would have been anything like as big a success without people mixing up and satirising popular culture. Also ask Tom Fulp whether the BBC threatening to sue the site for him personally making and uploading a Flash game that included swearing teletubbies resulted in the game being taken down, or whether he just renamed the characters "Telebubbys" and left it.

As far as remembering the word wrap setting is concerned, how does Quest save its settings? I tried looking at the source for the recent items list and its seems it gets stored in the registry. Are all quest settings saved as registry keys, or is there also a config file somewhere?

They all get saved in the registry. The best existing one to look at would be Simple Mode I think.

I pushed a commit which saves the word wrap setting

Thanks, now merged.

Whatever man, you've already stated you blatantly don't care about violating copyrights and I personally don't care what you do unless you try to infringe on any of mine. My point was simply that you were wrong to say that you can't get into trouble for posting content online that you don't have the rights to. Some companies are more aggressive in their search for said material than others.